Letters to the Editor

updated 3-Sep-2001

Peter Gesner     peter.gesner@mtq.qld.gov.au   20-Nov-2004

Pandora Project Director / Sr Curator (Cultures & Histories)
Museum of Tropical Queensland (Queensland Museum)
Flinders St East
Townsville
Australia 4810
ph: +61 7 47 260 625
fax: +61 7 47 212 093
See us on the web: www.mtq.qld.gov.au

 Fred R Bandy Jr         fredeni@swbell.net       3-Sep-2001

Here is a portion of the Bucknell entry from my book 'Morris dancing in the English south Midlands, 1660 - 1900. A chronological gazetteer' (Hisarlik Press, for the Folklore Society, 1993), recently updated, and imminently due to reappear (along with its companion volume and many other of my previously published articles) on a CD ROM.

'Joe Bandy, named as one of the dancers on the surviving photograph, does not feature in any of the official sources relating to the village, nor is he obviously any of the men of this name in the national 1881 census index. I have, however, discovered his presence from May 1880, at least, when he was playing cricket with both the Bucknell and Bicester teams. He may, like John Henry Simpkins at Headington Quarry in 1887, have been a recent incomer who was invited to join the morris set. Bucknell House had been leased by one Henry Tubb around January 1880, and in June 1882 he was preparing to move to Bicester. From a report in the Bicester Herald, 23 June 1882, page 7, he had clearly been a much-loved benefactor during his tenure. On 19 June that year, a cricket match was played between teams chosen by Tubb and Joseph Bandy, following which a presentation was made on behalf of the villagers. The address read out during the ceremony included the names of twelve known morris dancers. As note above, the photograph was said in 1912 to have been taken 'about 30 years ago'  I suggest that the men are waiting for [a dancer who is not in the photograph] to arrive before setting off on tour, and that the actual date the photograph was taken was Whit Monday, 29 May 1882.'

I would be delighted to hear from any relatives or persons with additional information, and also share what I have.

Keith Chandler, Oxfordshire   KEITHC650@aol.com    21-Apr-2001

Editor's note:     Keith has searched hard to locate the origin of this Joseph Bandy.  The man in the photo looks about 40 years old, but we cant find any Bandy anywhere in the 1881 census who would fit - and not even any families in the area to give us a clue.  Was Joseph one of your ancestors? - Derek

Yours aye Graham W Bandy  23-Mar-2001

The Eubank's Book says the land record for 24 Mar 1755 bought 200 acres from Samuel Phelps Southam Cumberland Co VA near Francis Epperson and Francis Stegar.  Richard and Elizabeth sold it 4 Nov 1766 to John Cardwell.  In Eubank's book I think they believe it was John Cambell due to the writing. If you look at the sale later by John Cardwell it is clear this is Cardwell not Cambell. John was Elizabeth's brother. One other thing missed in that the sale of land 24 Aug 1762 to James Aiken, is followed by Elizabeth wife of Richard giving up dower rights. There is damage to the pages of the deed book such that if I had not seen the same thing in the sale of 1766 to John Cardwell I might have missed it.

The source for the speculation about this marriage that I am aware of is a book by Helen E. Hart Peyton, "Some Early Pioneers of Western Kentucky, Their Ancestors and Descendants". Deborah, Iowa: Anundsen Publishing Co., Second Edition, 1990, p. 296. which says:  "Latest research in Henrico County, Virginia Court Orders, 1774-1780, lists a court case between George Cardwell and Daniel Cardwell executors of the last will of Thomas Cardwell, dec'd., John Cardwell, Francis Epperson and Martha his wife, Richard Bandy and his wife, Elizabeth divisees of Thomas Cardwell vs. Charles Lewis and Lucy Brazile surviving executors of the last will of Thomas Cardwell, dec'd. The case was to continue in chancery court, 8 November of 1785, no continuance was located."  As a devise of course one thinks she would be a daughter but it was not stated clearly.

I talked to the archivist at the Library of Virginia, where all these records are, to see if I could find the relevant records.  This proved difficult because they appeared not to exist, however while at the site I found they have an on-line index to some of the chancery court records. It showed a case ending in 1789 with almost identically the same names but of course it was only an index.  While I waited to get this record I thought perhaps there was a court order in the local court for the book 1781-1787 which did exist. I got the film and searched - but nothing. Meantime I looked at the originals of the deeds. I had the advantage of the land records mentioned above but I had the advantage of Helen Peyton's book where he followed the John Cardwell land through his sale so there is no question between Cardwell and Campbell.

When I got the package from the library I was bowled over. It included a copy of Thomas Cardwell's will 2 Dec 1772 which clearly names Elizabeth Bandy as a daughter. In the additional material Elizabeth is identified as the wife of Richard Bandy. I suspect the will was never recorded until the problem that occurred in 1783 or it was recorded and burned along with many other records of the time.

Linda Martino [martino@pobox.com]  13-Mar-2001

Yours aye Graham W Bandy  27-Jan-2001

Sincerely, Cheri Robinson
26-Dec-2000

Derek,
Because of the family tradition of Huguenot ancestry and known record of Bandys in and around Henrico county, Virginia, I decided to try to find a little more about Manakin, Virginia. It was a site of an early Huguenot settlement. Manakin lies west of the James River (Tidewater) area of Virginia near the Rappahannock River. The name Manakin comes from the Indian tribe called the "Monacons." The land was given to the early Huguenots by the Virginia Assembly. It lies in Goochland county, but borders on Henrico county.
Not many of the early records exist, but of the few that do, I found some interesting information. An original settler of Manakin was Antoine Benin and his wife Elizabeth. In the register of baptisms of the Church of French Refugees, I found the following entries:

9 Aug. 1729, was born Isaac, son of Antoine Benin and Elizabeth his wife. Oct. 1731, was born Judith, son of Antoine Benin and Elizabeth. 1734, was born Joseph, son of Antoine Benin and Elizabeth. 1736, was born Elizabeth, daughter of Antoine and Elizabeth. 1737, was born Jean, son of Antoine and Elizabeth.

In addition, I also noted the following entries:

1738, William Bantan son of William Bantan. 1737, was born Jean, son of Jean Bonduran 1740, was born Richard, son of Jean Bonduran

The 1744 List of Tithables lists Peter Bondurant, John Bondurant, and Joseph Bondurant. The list also includes Antony Benin.

Of course, I have no idea if these people are in any way connected to the Bandys of Virginia or the Bannings of Maryland. I just find it interesting that one of the largest Huguenot settlements happens to have been in an area where Richard Bandy (1795) lived. The names are very similar as well. I will continue to dig to see whether I can tie these individuals to our family.

Cheri Robinson
25-Nov-2000

Derek,
In a book entitled, "The Original Scots Colonists of Early America (1612-1783)", by David Dobson, published by the Genealogical Publishing Co. (9.29.73), I find a most interesting entry. It lists Jane Cumming, resident of Alvie Morayshire, transported 22 April 1747, from Liverpool, to Virginia on board the Johnson. Arrived Port Oxford, Maryland 5 Aug. 1747. It lists as resources the following: Prisoners of the '45, B. Seton, Edinburgh 1929 and Public Record Office, London, T1.328.  

Port Oxford is in Talbot county, Maryland. It was heavily settled by Huguenots.  I find this very interesting. We now have a record of real person named Jane Cumming.  Although not a resident of Liverpool, she was transported from there, which ties in with family legend.  She settled in an area where we find Bannings and Bandys. The date fits in with the time period of Richard. And the area was heavily settled with Huguenots.  Although this does not prove a Huguenot connection, it may explain why the tradition came to be.  

Reviewing other passengers aboard the Johnson and other boats of the time, I find a John Brandy and several people with names such as Bane and Bayne. I'm beginning to feel that Jane does fit somehow into the history of the Bandy family.  Other Cummins and Cummings aboard ships at the time were: William Cummins, David Cummins, Peter Cummin, and Duncan Cumming. I believe that William was Jane's father. He arrived in Maryland in 1716.

Cheri Robinson
30-Jul-2000

Derek,
I found a new spelling of the name Bandy. I've run into several records of Bendry and Bendrey. Most of these folks can be found in Old Rappahannock and Essex counties in Virginia. I have a record of an Elizabeth Bendrey, daughter of William and Elizabeth, marrying a William Short in 1750. Her parents, William Bendry and Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Moss, married in 1686. There is a record of a will of Thomas Bendrey in 1703 in Lancaster, Virginia. It lists Elizabeth as the executor. I also located some Bande people in Maryland. These people were located in Talbot county, Maryland. Sometimes their name was Bandy, others it was Bande, and other times Baning. So I do believe Dale is on to something in his research of the Bannings of Maryland. I plan to send all of this Dale to see if he's run across the same people. I have to believe the Bendry/Bendrey people are related because the name seems to die out around the time I discover Bandy records.

For such an uncommon name now, it seems there were plenty of Bandy / Bany / Baning / Bande / Bendry, Bundy people in colonial US!

Cheri Robinson
28-Oct-1999

Derek,
Here's a tidbit of info that I dug up at the library. I have no idea if it means anything. I was looking in the book "To Maryland from Overseas--Complete Digest of the Jacobite and Loyalists Sold into White Slavery in Maryland and the British and Continental Background of Maryland Settlers from 1634 to Early Federal Period" by Harry Wright Newman, Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1986. The book talks about the surrender of the Scottish loyalists under Chales Edward, the Young Pretender, at the disastrous battle of Culloden Moore, Inverness, on April 16, 1746, to William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland. The Scottish captives were dispatched by Cumberland to various destinations such as Preston, Garstang, Wigon, Manchester, and Liverpool to suffer at the gallows. About 600 submitted to the King's mercy and were offered indentures to sign for seven years service in the Plantations.

On the list of those Scots on the ship Johnson from Liverpool in 1746 are: Jane Cumming and John Brandy

Jane Cumming may have been a very common name back then, but because of the date and the fact that the ship sailed from Liverpool, I had to make mention of it. Also that a John Brandy was aboard. I've always found that family tradition has some ring of truth. Maybe this is the elusive Jane Cumming.

Cheri Robinson
8-Oct-1999

Editor's note:     I have commented before that immigrants to the US often gave their port of departure e.g. Liverpool , rather than their place of birth.  If this is the mysterious Jane Cumming, AND THE DATES FIT for a son in 1748, this is a wonderful find - I look forward to the follow up - Derek.

Derek,
'm not sure what to make of the following material I found. It is contained in a book called Documenting the American South that I found on the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill's web site. The Bandy family, or one branch, could have a Huguenot connection. I followed quite an interesting trail to find the link. I had found a land record that mentioned a Richard Bonnye in Cumberland county Virginia. I wondered if this was yet another spelling of Bandy. I did a search on google.com for Bonnye and Bany. Up popped this link. I also found an issue of The Quarterly of the Virginia Genealogical Society that contains an article about the Bany/Bandy family of Cumberland and Botetourt counties. The text of the issue is available for purchase. Maybe someone has access to the article. It's entitled Stepping Back in Time, Volume 5, #3 Sept. 1991. I can order a copy, but if someone has the issue or can find it in a library, it would save me $15.

Here is the text from the University's site:

Page 8 fearful times in which he lived, - one of the best that has come down to us. Agrippa was the father of Constant d'Aubigné, who was the father of Mme. de Maintenon, and her brother, Chevalier d'Aubigné. Constant d'Aubigné was twice married. The first wife, Ann Marchant, left a son Theodore. The second wife, Jeanne Cardillac, was the mother of Mme. de Maintenon and Chevalier d'Aubigné; the latter was never married. The d'Aubigné line was continued through Ann Marchant's son, Theodore.

We find the name on the rolls of Battle Abbey among the list of knights who fell at Hastings. Others survived the conquest, and are mentioned in Hume's History as champions of Magna Charta.

After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes (1685), a branch of the d'Aubigné family left forever the land of their ancestors, because they could no longer there worship God with freedom of conscience. They took refuge in Wales. Somewhere between 1715 to 1717 two brothers, Cornelius and John d'Aubigné, left this land of their adoption, and sailed for America. Perhaps about the same time their brother Robert came over, and fixed his home in Boston. Cornelius and John came to Virginia and settled on the two banks of the Pamunky River, - Cornelius on the northern and John on the southern side.

In the hand-book in the land office of Richmond, Virginia, is recorded: "Cornelius de Bany, or de Bonés or de Bony - a grant of land (200 acres) in New Kent, dated 27th September, 1664. Again, another grant to same of 640 acres, dated June 7th, 1666. Again, this last grant was on Tolomoy Creek, York River. Again, Sarah Dabney, a grant of land (179 acres) on Pamunky River, in King and Queen Co., April 25th, 1701." Then follow other grants to other Dabneys in these early days of our country.

From Robert d'Aubigné, of Boston, sprang the men who for three generations, and almost from the beginning of our republic, have held the United States consulate in the Azores, or Western Islands. During this period the government has seen many changes, but only ..............

As always, I will pursue this new information. I think the key is obtaining a copy of the magazine article. It just goes to show that you must research every possible tidbit of information.

Cheri Robinson
23-Aug-1999

Editor's note:     Can anybody help with the document highlighted above?

Derek, 

In the book "the descendants of Richard Bandy 1720-1795 & Ava Jane Cummings 17_ _ - 1752" by M Bandy & P Strothcamp, the Bandeaux family from France moved to Scotland and England during the French revolution [I assume this means 1789 - ed.]. Part of the family, which moved to England, changed their name to Bundy, the other part, which moved to Scotland, changed their name to Bandy to keep from being traced...the Bandeaux were French Huguenots who left France because of religious persecution. Richard came from Liverpool England, his wife Ava Jane from Dublin Ireland. Another twist?.

 I am from the John Henry Bandy 18-Dec-1858 & Susan Virginia Cravatt 7-Dec-1856, family..Cara I Bandy 19-Apr-1889 & John H Strauser 9-Oct-1886, Monetta L Strauser 26-May-1916 & Kermith R Branyord 1-Sep-1909, Sharon K Branyord 3-Jun1939 & Willis g Ubben 8-Nov-1934.

Wally C Ubben (15-Apr-1960)  11-Aug-199

Editor's note:    I think my replies below to previous letters should suffice.  But, if the author really did mean the 1789 French Revolution then this is later than Richard reaching America and clearly erroneous.  If he didn't, then what date was he talking about and what evidence does he offer?.  I can confirm that there were Bundys in England well before 1720.  My views on Liverpool and Dublin will be found elsewhere on the site. -  see "the search for Richard continues" - Derek

I am a Bandy in West Virginia USA...I have found the notion of Bandy's coming to the US from England as Huguenots....and found a De Bandy in the name listing, also there is a town by the name of Bandy in Southwest Virginia......My theory, they landed in Virginia and moved West.....also a gentleman in South Carolina is editor of newspaper there, claims it is French...Also I have an article (Can't find it now) of a French actress by the name of Roselle with the addition of (Nee; Nelache), at the time I received many comments from some French friends I had.....saying "Did I know I was French?" ..Hummmm Interesting, but with that and the Normans, but the French Huguenots were a lot of them sent to England.... \ Do you have anything like that.....??

Jim Bandy 13-Aug-1999

AND SUBSEQUENTLY...

I base my theory on the Huguenots coming to Virginia, and in a book references "French Blood in America" there was the mention of Huguenots coming from England, and in the names listed...."De Bandy." Also I have a friend in Detroit who is Hungarian, and his name......."Peter BANDY"...he traces his name back to around the time of the Huguenots and as understand it, a fair number of the Huguenots left for Holland, Switzerland, and the Eastern areas......? I ask if there were many "Bandy's" in Hungry.....he said not many, but........The other interesting item I ran across...I am an automobile collector, and in one of my "La Vie de L'Auto" they reference "Voitures de stars" and mentioned a French Actress: Francoise Rosay (Nee de Bandy de Naleche)...with this I noticed in the references to a Count De Bandy in France......Anyway, to what époque does the name first show up in your research...?

Jim Bandy 14-Aug-1999

Editor's note:    I have always doubted this theory for the following main reason:
The real outpouring of Huguenots from France started with The revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685. There were already Bandy families in England from at least 1550. It is true that there had been persecution of Huguenots in France from their foundation, but unlikely that migration had taken place much before the Huguenot revolt of 1625. So in England the Bandys were present before the Huguenots left France (in the main) and in America people trace their descent from an English Bandy.

Derek,

I received an interesting file from the Tennessee State Library. It is in the genealogical files of the Creighton Collection. Much of the information I already had, but it does include several letters written to and from Bandys in the early 1900s. One of the letters seems to confirm Dale Bandy's theory that the original Richard Bandy was not married to Jane Cummins. Rather, Richard's son (also named Richard) was married to a Jane Cummins. The letter was written in 1910 to a John Ballard, who was researching the Bandy family. Here is the text of the letter:

"In reply to your letter will say my father's name was Jimison Bandy. He was a doctor by profession. He was born in Virginia in the year 1789, was a son of Richard Bandy, who married Jane Cummins. He had five brothers. All came to Tennessee with Major Maston, who married a sister of my grandfather, Richard Bandy. My father served in the war of 1812 and drew a pension. This George and Solomon Bandy you speak of are my father's uncles, old Richard Bandy's brothers. My father's brother, Richard, died in Virginia in about 1798. He was dead when Maj. Maston brought his children to Tenn. My father, Dr. Jemison Bandy, married a Wright and raised five children, one boy and four girls, who are all dead, save one daughter, a Mrs. Cortram, who is 83 years of age. These five children are by his first wife. By his second wife, who was a Denson, there were four children, two boys and two girls. I, being the toughest of this last four, my age being 60 the 29th of Jan. 1920. My father died in 1873.

--Joseph W. Bandy"

Of course, even though it seems to support Dale's theory, it does bring up other questions. Particularly, the death of Richard given as 1798. That date is more in line with the original Richard's death date. Plus, I've never seen any mention of the Major Maston mentioned in the letter.

Regards, Cheri Robinson
8-Aug-1999

FREE SOFTWARE

Derek, 

I'm not 100% positive that all of the dates are correct, so you may want to note that.   Also, please express my thanks to Dale Bandy as his book helped me find the one link to Richard I was missing (Johns' son George of Ohio).  

Also thanks to Personal Ancestral File for making their program available at no cost and very easy to use even for a person with little computer experience like myself. You may want to inform folks that visit your site about it. I believe it can be downloaded at http://www.familysearch.org/  Of course I'm still digging and trying to confirm conflicting dates and such, and will send updates to that effect. Last but not least, thank you for the great site, and also for taking the time (I know your real busy) to answer my questions. You've been a big help and my hat goes off to you. Keep up the great work on the site!! 

Fred Richard Bandy Jr. Temple, Tx
05-Aug-1999

Editor's note:    Fred's genealogy can be found on the Genealogy pages.  PAF 4.0 is available for free downloading on the site mentioned above.  I downloaded it the other day and I agree with Fred.  I now have three packages:- PAF, TMG and FTW they are all fine and I use them to process and hold submitted material.  But none of them do what I want to do with my research!.

VERY EARLY AMERICAN BANDYS ? ? ?

I found some very early records of possible Bandys in the US. I found a Nicholas Bundhy on the 1634 Chancery Patent Rolls. I've never seen this particular spelling. I'm really not sure what these records are for. It seems they are a list of those people who are allowed to sell tobacco in England. Maybe you know more about these records or if the area stated is near the Bandy records you have found.

I also found a record of a Capt. Bonde in 1632,  a George Bonde recorded in 1632 and last, I found a record for John Bandie. It is dated 1774 and is a roster of soldiers for Dunsmore War.

Regards, Cheri Robinson

Editor's note:    Cheri kindly sent me the images of these documents, if anyone wants to see them, email me - they are too large to publish here. - Derek

THE FRENCH CONNECTION 

Hi Derek, 
Sending warmest thanks and admiration for your and Dale's hard work. There seems to be a question as to some Bandys being from France, so thought I would share what Otis Messenger ( grandson of John Bandy and Mary VanNyes - chapter 2) wrote in a letter to a cousin in 1952.

"The name Bandy is French, and there are still some remnants in southern France. I have seen it several times in French patents. They spell it `Bandi` and `Band`e`. Those nearest the Swiss border use the "i" termination."

This really adds to all the possibilities of how the Bandy name evolved, doesn't it?

Keep up the good work, hopefully everyone's input will help put all the branches on the Bandy tree.

Sincerely Margaret Williams, 
gg granddaughter of John Bandy and Mary VanNyse. 20-Jul-1999

Editor's note:    For myself I think these French / Swiss families are probably unconnected, but their name may have a similar nordic etymology - which is that given (peasant farmer) on this website. - Derek

Huguenots Connections or myth?

Thanks for being a depository for information. All of us will get much further in our research having so many people connected through your web site.

I had written to the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. I had read an article in their publication about Huguenots that came to Virginia. Since one of the stories handed down through the generations is that the Bandys were French Huguenots, I wrote the foundation to see if they had any Bandy records. The librarian could not connect the family to the Huguenots that settled near colonial Williamburg, but she did find an early record of a possible Bandy. In the land patents, an Elizabeth Bundy was listed as a headright for land patented in 1665 in Westmoreland county. An additional record for an Elizabeth Bandy listed as a headright for land patented in New Kent county in 1668. This is the earliest record I've seen for Bandy/Bundy in America in Virginia. Westmoreland county is right on the coast of Virginia near Maryland. I'm puzzled that the patent is in Elizabeth's name. Who was this woman? Was Bandy her married name? Without more digging, I cannot say. I'll see what I can find.

Regards, Cheri Robinson, June 28, 1999

COST OF SOURCE DOCUMENTS IN THE USA
Can anyone tell me where I can get documentation for free?  I don't mean to sound cheap, but I really don't have much money at my disposal and $7.00 a pop for document searches can add up rather fast when you have to do 10 or 12.

anon

Editor's note:    I'm English and have no experience with American records.  But I can tell you that UK records cost more than that.  I think that you don't really need to have the source records themselves, as long as you have a good reference to them and know what they say.  That is one of the values of this website.  It makes it possible for people to share the data they already have.  In the UK many indexes to source records exist and access to them is free.  But I hope some correspondents will tell us more about US records.  - Derek

THE BANTA NAME (2)

Derek,
I've found out a bit more on the Banta/Bandy connection. Upon a search of both Bandy and Banta, on a site that lists genealogy books, I found that one book contained both names. It is entitled Van Nuys Genealogy. The author is Carrie E. Allenand the Call Number is CS71.V2698x. I didn't seem to find my direct line indicated. It appears the early Van Nuys folks married Bantas. Sometime in the late 1790s the name became Bandy. These Bandys were in Pennsylvania and later moved to Kentucky, Indiana, and Iowa. I don't know whether the name actually changed or if the Van Nuys' married both Bantas and Bandys. Very confusing. You might throw out the question on your site whether anyone has researched into the Van Nuys connection. It may point out that there are two lines of ancestry here in the states.

Regards, Cheri Robinson, June 19, 1999

Editor's note:  Could this explain why some people believe that the name is of Dutch origin?.  Has a memory of Dutch ancestors got modified over time to a belief that these people were Bandys - or is this now a Bandy name line that is simply not related? - Derek

THE BANTA NAME
Derek,
I ran across an interesting web site today. I found it through surfing through some Huguenot links. The URL is http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/nyinda.htm. It contains a list of 17th century immigrants to New York. There is a Banta listed.

Evidently, he changed his name from Epke Jacobs. Weird, huh? Here's a bit copied from the site:

Notes: The ancestor of the BANTA family in America, Epke JACOBS, was a farmer who lived in the vicinity of Harlingen, an important seaport of Friesland, the most northern of the provinces of the Netherlands. Upon arrival in America, Epke JACOBS probably settled in Flushing, Long Island, NY and was an innkeeper according to New York records. About 1671 he had a mill in the adjoining town of Jamaica, NY.

Subsequently, Epke JACOBS removed to New Jersey, settling at Bergen, (Now Jersey City), probably prior to 1675. In 1681 he purchased land at Hackensack, Bergen Co., NJ. A deed, not recorded, for property at what is now called Ridgefield Park, on the east side of the river, two miles below Hackensack, was in existence a number of years ago. It was dated 17 June 1685 and was made by Epke JACOBS to Hendrick Joris Brinckerhoff, in the possession of whose descendants the land remained for 200 years. (The deed was kept in an old oaken chest in the Brinckerhoff homestead.) The late James Riker examined this deed for the signature of Epke JACOBS.

I've written to the researcher who posted this information. I'll let you know what I find out.

Sincerely, Cheri Robinson   15-Jun-1999

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